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Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
497
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Posted - 2012.06.24 01:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:whats wrong with supers and titans? Unless the people who have them are completely incompetent, they are a pretty significant barrier to entry to null sec.
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
497
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 03:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:How are they a barrier towards nullsec entry? New players are just as able to join the titan pilot's alliance as any old player. Unless you're saying that new, unorganized groups have just as much right to hold lawless space as better equipped and organized ones.
So much arrogance (as usual) and so wrong...
Older groups are becoming harder and harder and harder to displace. Usually (so far as I've been able to tell) it's remnants of other older groups doing it over and over and over ad-nauseum...
Frankly, I don't care what they do with null. I'll continue to raid sovereign null sec systems from wormholes - so I get to null-sec w/o having to play "your game".
The residents of null are their own worst enemy.
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
497
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 03:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: There is zero incentive for me to throw carebear chum in the ocean for the sharks to get a whiff of. And there it is...
Zero incentive for anyone else to bother with null.
Because you will keep exporting to hi-sec, to make your own money...
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
497
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 03:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:I know you don't care what happens with null, it shows with your inability to follow this thread and lack of knowledge of 0.0 gameplay and mechanics. Following the thread fine, thanks.
Been listening to 0.0 entities whining for 4+ years about hi-sec. Far as I can tell - null sec residents are still the best argument against living (full time) in null sec.
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
499
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 08:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Yet here you are, trying to frame how behavior that is established as being firmly rooted in the game's mechanics as somehow a "moral choice" on the heads of each and every part of 20% of the playerbase, despite those arguments being dealt with back on the early teens of this thread. I'm perfectly aware of the game mechanics involved, couple years ago I even (along with some others on these boards) tried to brainstorm some changes to make null *more* attractive (i.e. - better) than Hi-sec for mining, research, invention *and* production.
Tell you what - CCP may have done null-sec *worse* than anything "Hi-sec" can do.
Worm Hole space. According to Dr. E - 5.6% of the population was in wormholes the last time they took a snapshot. That number will keep going up for awhile (plenty of room left in WH's).
That 5.6% of the population *are* the kinds of people who might otherwise be in K-space 0.0, but aren't. They have *their* system, they defend them (or not) and they profit from whats there. The question you have to ask yourself is "Why are these players in WH's instead of in K-Space Null"?
That would be another good place to start.
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
502
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 16:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Asuri Kinnes wrote:The question you have to ask yourself is "Why are these players in WH's instead of in K-Space Null"? because you have the luxury of ensuring that any wormhole with bad people on the other side is closed right up Sure, you can also "chain roll holes" to find pvp, empty null-sec to go rat/anom in and since WH's are mass/time limited it restricts the kinds of things you can do.
Also don't have to worry about titans or hotdrops, and if you *do* get surprise *********'d, you know that either someone has done their homework and seeded your WH over a period of time (with combat ships) and you haven't seen it (not too many WH corps have 23.5/7 coverage) OR there is a limited amount of tonnage coming through to you. You can then decide to tactically collapse the wormhole on your enemies (stranding one of your guys on the far side to trap the enemy in with you if you have to) and then race to see who can locate and control the next entrance - defenders or attackers.
Gaining and maintaining "hole control" is another level of strategic thinking when engaging...
Also!
You don't have to worry that your neighbor has 50,000 neighbors - usually fights are (admittedly) much smaller than 0.0 fleet battles - most people end up holding one "WH" system. But to imply (as others have, i.e. "Seleene" and the pants-on-head stupid WH Stabilizer) that these "home" systems are impregnable is wrong. You have to want the fight, you have to spend time staging your forces (in our case we spent three *MONTHS* getting assets in a WH we were going to invade) then you spring your trap. All while not getting spotted/ganked/locked out.
Bonus points for poding your enemies out of the WH after you pop their ships.
Another reason people are in WH's instead of 0.0 - in WH's a small group *can* make their own way. They can create their own "story" - WH's aren't all claimed. And even with claimed WH's - because the routes in and out are *not* static - you can't always lock people out of your 'hole...
As was stated earlier in this thread - Null sec Stations should give benefits to null-sec industry, should have (MORE THAN) enough slots so that "Industry in Deklin doesn't have to be dedicated to only making fuel blocks for the Crucible release", more research/invention and refining bonus'/slots than Hi-sec. (That is also pants on head silly that Null doesn't). Also (imho - and as I've said before) Null industry/refining/invention all should be able to be done at higher % of profit/margin than in Hi-sec (RP it as "we don't need no stinking OSHA in Null-sec).
Still and all - I still don't think Null Sec alliances have done enough to combat the damage wrought in their name by those who have shiptoasted over the years, giving null-sec'ers a bad reputation to just about everyone else. Most of the time it seems like giving bad information/trolling/insulting isn't just tolerated by Null residents, it's actively encouraged...
This thread (for the most part) being somewhat free of that.
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
502
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 18:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Quote:because you have the luxury of ensuring that any wormhole with bad people on the other side is closed right up Asuri Kinnes wrote:
because you have the luxury of ensuring that any wormhole with bad people on the other side is closed right up
Sure, you can also "chain roll holes" to find pvp, empty null-sec to go rat/anom in and since WH's are mass/time limited it restricts the kinds of things you can do. Also don't have to worry about titans or hotdrops, and if you *do* get surprise *********'d, you know that either someone has done their homework and seeded your WH over a period of time (with combat ships) and you haven't seen it (not too many WH corps have 23.5/7 coverage) OR there is a limited amount of tonnage coming through to you. You can then decide to tactically collapse the wormhole on your enemies (stranding one of your guys on the far side to trap the enemy in with you if you have to) and then race to see who can locate and control the next entrance - defenders or attackers. Gaining and maintaining "hole control" is another level of strategic thinking when engaging... Also! You don't have to worry that your neighbor has 50,000 neighbors - usually fights are (admittedly) much smaller than 0.0 fleet battles - most people end up holding one "WH" system. But to imply (as others have, i.e. "Seleene" and the pants-on-head stupid WH Stabilizer) that these "home" systems are impregnable is wrong. You have to want the fight, you have to spend time staging your forces (in our case we spent three *MONTHS* getting assets in a WH we were going to invade) then you spring your trap. All while not getting spotted/ganked/locked out. Bonus points for poding your enemies out of the WH after you pop their ships. Another reason people are in WH's instead of 0.0 - in WH's a small group *can* make their own way. They can create their own "story" - WH's aren't all claimed. And even with claimed WH's - because the routes in and out are *not* static - you can't always lock people out of your 'hole... As was stated earlier in this thread - Null sec Stations should give benefits to null-sec industry, should have (MORE THAN) enough slots so that "Industry in Deklin doesn't have to be dedicated to only making fuel blocks for the Crucible release", more research/invention and refining bonus'/slots than Hi-sec. (That is also pants on head silly that Null doesn't). Also (imho - and as I've said before) Null industry/refining/invention all should be able to be done at higher % of profit/margin than in Hi-sec (RP it as "we don't need no stinking OSHA in Null-sec). Still and all - I still don't think Null Sec alliances have done enough to combat the damage wrought in their name by those who have shiptoasted over the years, giving null-sec'ers a bad reputation to just about everyone else. Most of the time it seems like giving bad information/trolling/insulting isn't just tolerated by Null residents, it's actively encouraged... This thread (for the most part) being somewhat free of that. but in reply, usually it's only the Russian Care-Bear corps that *try* and crash people out - but nice try.
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
506
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 23:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
/bump back to page one...
There seems to have been some kind of . . . .
something...
not sure if serious though...

You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
507
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 00:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hammer Crendraven wrote:Only null sec players can make null sec vibrant again. Game content is what you make of it. EVE by itself is dull and boring without player interaction. It is the players in the game that add flavor and value. Then the current null sec crop of players need to be replaced to make null vibrant again. For they are incompetent at enhancing their own fun. It is not like null sec is empty either. Over 20,000 players in null. /mindblown . . .
Look, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but, when the physical mechanics of a thing impede players from doing /whatever, instead of enhance the ability to do /whatever...
Don't you think that would call for /something?
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
508
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 00:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hammer Crendraven wrote:Nope!
The game has been like this for what 9 years and suddenly now you have a problem with game mechanics?
Talk about mindblown! I would say the game is working as designed. But suddenly we have a class of null players that can not cope with null. I've lived out of a POS for basically the last 15 months with my corp in Wormhole Space. POS mechanics (and building things in POS') have sucked the whole time.
This is *NOT* about "null-sec" players who can't cope, even though you might *LIKE* it to be that.
It's about design decisions made "back in the day" that are / were cludgy at best - but worked. It's about making null sec *not* dependent on 500,000 manufacturing slots in Hi-sec (for example) when (for example) an entire *REGION'S* manufacturing capacity had to be put to *just* making fuel blocks before crucible...
The question becomes "why, if null sec is about building *empires* - does it suck at doing/supporting that goal"?
So no, it's not "suddenly" anything.
Hammer Crendraven wrote:Center for Advanced Studies [CAS] from 2012.04.18 19:16 to this day C'mon - wtf? Why does everyone feel that they have to have a dam forum alt? FFS - I"ve disagreed with people on the forums for 4 years...
I don't get that...
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
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Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
508
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 01:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Look, I can be as wrong as the next guy, but I'm not *closed* to anything that comes from null - the more I read, the more I just feel like going -10 again and just nuking whoever the hell comes through the next gate...
Interdict all of hi-sec, ffs.....
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
508
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 01:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hammer Crendraven wrote:Be carefull what you wish for. I am quite sure CCP does not want null space and wormhole space to have the same advantages and disadvantages. What if you premiss is wrong, is null sec about building empires? and even if it is does that also apply to wormhole space? Again 9 years of this I do not see much if anything changing any time soon. *BELIEVE ME* I'm well aware of that -
Bloody hell, there's a CSM member who still wants wormhole stretchers, staplers, stabilizers and washer/dryer combo's because he thinks that corps/alliances that are in hi end wh's are "invulnerable"... /pants-on-head... So he wants to make it possible to make wormholes = gates. But the thing is, the random nature of the routes in and out of wh space is what make it unique.
Null has *always* been about the "ultimate expression" of player's wills...
Agree with the players out there or not, but that is what it's set up for (and wh's to a lesser degree - *because of the random nature of travel). So yeah, I know to be careful what I ask for. So far, CCP has indicated that POS mechanics are getting looked at - fair enough, I can't wait to see what they do come up with.
But seriously - all rah-rah, trolling aside, if players run null-sec, why do they have to abide by "the rules" when it comes to manufacturing, for example? There is no "OSHA" in Null sec... There should be *some* advantage to manufacturing in null - I personally don't think it will bring many *new* players out to null - but seriously? An entire region making fuel blocks ffs?
:psyduck:
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
508
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 01:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hammer Crendraven wrote:I really do not see how population has anything to do with this. The problem with mechanics is and has been the same for many years and yet has never changed. Why is it going to change now? What makes you so different than players 5 years ago? They could not effect change so why are you going to be able to? Well - I hate to say this, but Incarna *may* have had something to do with it... CCP left things to wither on the vine. Just because players "made do" with what they had... doesn't mean it can't be better...
Last year CCP committed to "making better" all those "thousand papercuts". That is why a lot of people see this as maybe the time to go for the gold... vOv
or it could just be more :rabble:!

Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
508
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 18:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Cold harsh universe? Seriously I don't see a huge problem with it. Could you elaborate more on why it does not make sense please. too easy to grief someone (even by CCP's "loose" standard of what that means). Individual players shouldn't be able to be singled out - target their corp.
IMHO.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
509
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 01:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:I've +1'd this post plainly for the fact I was starting to rage at the misspelling of "lose", then realised you actually did mean loose!
A rare occurrence. You've made me smile tonight.
TY.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
512
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 00:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Oh yes I read it just fine ... differentiate?  , you should run for government office. Don't ruin Highsec boring Nullbears. You should run for office.
You've got misinterpreting and derailing down pat.
How about this. How about answering why someone who does not live in null, and hasn't lived in hi-sec for over 3 years, think Hi-Sec needs a bit of a nerf and Null needs (at MINIMUM) an Industry buff to make Null Sec better for manufacturing than Hi-Sec.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
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